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I've always been a little annoyed at the North American attitudes and petty worries when people were starving in Africa and wars were raging around the world. The "not my backyard" mentality give us a false sense of security and allows us to ignore the extracontinental problems while we moan and complain about losing the Olympics or a slowing economy.
I do think that this has been coming a long time. The Americans have definitely brought this destruction upon itself. Just watch the documentaries and read the information regarding all of the crazy policies they made during the Cold War. Supporting dictators just because they weren't communist. Arming militants and fundimentalists just because their enemy was an American enemy. But I'm not condoning terrorist attacks. The entire Afro-American community has suffered under the rule of the white man, but does it give them the right to massacre a city of civilians just because they're white? Do the Jews, herded like cattle in the Nazi death camps, have the right to execute every anti-semite? Do the native Americans have a right to scalp any immigrant that took their land?
You may think so, but I think the greatest triumph is for those oppressed to grow from these experiences, to learn from them and excel in the society in which they have been subjected to. To see the minorities rise in stature to become equals with those who thought they were superior. To eat with them, work with them, mate with them. It's a slow and painful process, but we're heading in the right direction. Man, those original colonialists must be rolling in their graves if they knew the way our society is changing.
But all too often, one will resort to violence. What does that solve?
With the issue of justice is an interesting one. Let us say that we do find the group responsible for these acts of terrorism. Act of war? No. That makes it sound as if there was a justifyable reason for the attacks on these civilian targets. The main purpose of these attacks are to terrorize the population, to show the world that noone is safe, and can never be. (Although we keep trying to pretend.)
So MJO poses an interesting question. What kind of justice am I talking about? Finding and executing all of the parties responsible will seem satisfying, but (I think) ultimately futile. Most of these people are willing to die for their cause, and will not repent or regret the decisions that they have made even in death. I think the only way for justice to be served is to make the perpertrators understand the full horror of their actions, to realize what they did was wrong. Only then can you truly.. repent, and to try to right that which you have made wrong. Of course, depending on the severity of the crime, a lifetime of service may not be enough to make up for the damage that they have done. Furthermore, these actions cannot go unpunished, since you do not want to give the impression that you can get away with murder.
Maybe I'm being idealistic. But I do think that the best form of justice is to have those that have erred to realize and understand the error of thier ways, but more importantly to teach their children not to make the same mistakes. For children are not born with hate, they're taught to hate.
Okay, I'm rambling now so I think I'll stop at this point.
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 at 20:50:05 (UTC)
I'm a bit confused by your "justice" comment. What do you feel is the appropriate response to an act of war?
MJO
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 at 21:25:19 (UTC)
A comment from the other side:
"America plants injustice and hatred in the hearts of the weak people so it reaps what it plants."
Sheikh Ahmed Yassin
girl
Tuesday, September 11, 2001 at 23:26:17 (UTC)
girl, are you saying that the people who died today deserve what they got because their government perpetrates certain questionable foreign policies? Might that mean you support continued sanctions against Iraq, even though they have not been effective in unseating Saddam's regime, while provably increasing the suffering of the Iraqi people?
sorry to say, but i find it a bit distasteful that you'd quote the "spiritual leader" of Hamas on this matter...
Growlo<e-mail>
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 01:21:53 (UTC)
A few points. Sorry this is so long.
Calling something an act of war doesn't imply in any way that it was justifiable - it means that the act itself was the equivalent of declaring war. It's a rhetoric thing. A more modern phrase would be "act of aggression," but that's what people mean when they say "act of war."
I clearly wouldn't support any of the hypothetical "revenge" situations you suggest (blacks, native americans, etc). By your logic, those mirror the situation of the terrorists. I would however support measures against any of those actions if they occurred, and thus I support strong actions against the group(s) responsible for these attacks today.
My question about justice wasn't about corporal punishment, actually. What I meant was that if this turns out to be more than a few zealots, "justice" won't be easily obtainable. If the people responsible aren't likely to be obtained through diplomatic channels (ie Bin Laden, Hussein) then military action (or the vaguely covert equivalent) is likely.
But I hope you're right - maybe it's just a few zealots, and they can lock them up. I'm not sure how likely that is, given the organisation and scale of the attacks.
MJO
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 01:55:46 (UTC)
Make no mistake: the Americans are at war. They're not exactly sure with whom, but war is assured. Afganis and Palestinians don't seem to realize the very real peril their way of life (or their hoped-for way of life) have come into today.
The world changed today. Whether for the better or worse probably isn't something we will know for decades yet. But it's been a very long time since a world's hope for peace have been so imperilled.
FlyingS
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 04:45:35 (UTC)
beggin your pardon reg, I am unfamiliar with the man who made the quote. i do not say that the people who died today deserve what they got because their government perpetrates certain questionable foreign policies
girl
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 10:30:06 (UTC)
Even for domestic crimes, harbouring a fugitive is a crime by the laws of most western nations - he's not re-writing laws, he's just stating facts.
MJO
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 15:07:20 (UTC)
revenge is not justice;
nor grievance justification.
nor blame comprehension;
nor innocence righteousness.
actions cannot become answers;
we discover that our questions
are like ashes from the sky:
bitter. abiding. grey. silent.
Growlo
Wednesday, September 12, 2001 at 15:34:11 (UTC)
sorry, girl.. maybe i read too much into why you quoted the Hamas guy. It just seemed that "America...reaps what it plants" sounds like "they get what they deserve". Still, you didn't say you sided with his sentiment, so my apologies.
Like i said, grievance is not and should never be justification for anything like this mass murder.
Growlo
Sunday, September 16, 2001 at 17:54:58 (UTC)
Actually MJO, methinks Dubuya was aiming those comments at countries that do not have, or do not enforce laws against harbouring criminals. (If I blew up a US building, I wouldn't want to hide in Britain.)
QYV